ETX-60, ETX-70, & ETX-80 USER FEEDBACK Last updated: 31 March 2008

This page is for user comments and information specific to the Meade ETX-60AT, ETX-70AT, ETX-80AT-TC, and ETX-80BB. Additional information is available on the ETX-60AT & ETX-70AT Announcements page. Comments on accessories and feedback items appropriate to other ETX models are posted on other pages. If you have any comments, suggestions, questions or answers to questions posed here, e-mail them to me and I'll post them. Please use an appropriate Subject Line on your message. Thanks.

Subject:	Broken Elevation counter spring mount
Sent:	Sunday, March 30, 2008 17:33:47
From:	Willard561@aol.com (Willard561@aol.com)
I have a ETX-80 that I bought it at Goodwill for $30.00. As you would
expect it has a "few issues", the most obvious was the mirror was loose,
and it was an easy fix. It also has a clunking sound from the right hand
fork. When I got it apart thanks to the info on your website, I found
the clunk was the attachment for the counter balance spring to the
elevation axis. I've attached a picture of it, as it's made from Acetal,
I doubt any type of glue could be used to fix it. Can you think of any
repair ideas other than send it back to Meade?

Thanks for your work. 
Bill Higdon

And:

I guess a good question is the spring really needed?

Subject:	Re: ETX 60 AT want focuse
Sent:	Tuesday, March 25, 2008 18:19:26
From:	Charles Powell (powel_charles@yahoo.com)
Thanks for your help Mike. It took quite a few turns to bring it into
focus. I watched the eyepice for movement and was not watching the
objective lens housing for movement. I then tried to put the telescope
back into it's case and it would not fit. The tube waas to long so I had
to run the focuse out to move the lens housing in. Thanks again for your
help. Now if you could clear out the clouds that would be great. Charles

Subject:	ETX-60AT used as a Balloon Theodolite
Sent:	Tuesday, March 25, 2008 17:53:18
From:	Jim Rogina (jrogina@acmesport.com)
I'm working on the following alternatives and combinations:

I installed the ASCOM "platform" driver for Autostar however the
appropriate 'Meade LX200 Classic Driver v5.0.1' available from
ascom-standards.org clearly specifies the #495 and/or #497 controller. 
My EXT-70AT's Autostar 494's firmware is at Version 10E1; I plan to
purchase and install a #497 controller as soon as possible... as I
understand it, I just plug-in the new #497 controller to upgrade? 
Richard mentioned that POTH and PIPE may come with the current ASCOM
driver, and so it makes sense to upgrade the Autostar and install the
current version of the driver.  Unfortunately Outlook blocks .vbs files
on my PC, apologetically, hopefully; Richard might resend his script;
maybe a different file extension will fool my Outlook configuration. In
the mean time, I'll order the #497... That is if there are no further
Autostar upgrade complications to consider.

Alternatively, Richard says Andrew's MyScope can track where an ETX is
pointing with user-program-supplied timestamps... Apparently you can
specify serial commands to output at a specific time/rate, and it will
log the results.  I see on your website the following link:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/johansea/
I'll download and play with this program tomorrow.

For future balloon theodolite units (total cost < $400.) I'm considering
the ETX-60ATBB, upgraded to Autostar #497 and using a 40mm Wide Angle T
Threaded Eyepiece with a directly attached ToUcam - [Philips PRO II
PCVC840K Webcam].

http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au/telescopes095.htm

Telescopes-Astronomy.com produces the 1.25" (32mm) diameter eyepiece
which has a focal length of 40mm and a T Thread on the end for directly
connecting the ToUcam.  The clear aperture 26mm lens is flat and
positioned close to the end of the eyepiece to keep it as close to the
camera as possible, widening the field of view.  The magnification is
350mm/40mm = 8.75X or 17.5X (with the flip-Barlow lens); very much like
a "real" theodolite.

This configuration should allow pibal following on a laptop screen with
a wider, more desirable Field Of View.  The internal flip-Barlow lens
will provide magnification doubling when called for... hopefully
someday, auto-tracking with PHD Guider will be possible.
http://www.stark-labs.com/phdguiding.html

Maybe I should send the DSI back to Amazon; it's supposed to arrive
Thursday...

Thanks so much for everything
Jim Rogina

And:

Will I need any additional cables like the 505 or possibly the USB/505
to connect my computer to the #497?

And:

From:	richard seymour (rseymour@wolfenet.com)
Jim Rogina wrote:
> Mike, Richard,
> 
> I'm working on the following alternatives and combinations:
> 
> I installed the ASCOM "platform" driver for Autostar however the appropriate
> 'Meade LX200 Classic Driver v5.0.1' available from ascom-standards.org
> clearly specifies the #495 and/or #497 controller.  My EXT-70AT's Autostar
> 494's firmware is at Version 10E1; I plan to purchase and install a #497
> controller as soon as possible...

I'd certainly install and try both the "Autostar" driver
and the Classic LX200 driver.   Back in 2000 Meade supplied
(in a manner of speaking) ASCOM v2 on a disk with the ETX70.
I used it for many years with both the 494 and 497 as "Classic LX200".

 > as I understand it, I just plug-in the new #497 controller to upgrade?

Yes.  Just plug it in, select your Model, and it should be happy.
(for accuracy, you'll have to then perform the same Calibrate
Motors and Train Drives that you should be doing on the 494.)

>  Richard mentioned that POTH and PIPE may come
> with the current ASCOM driver, and so it makes sense to upgrade the Autostar
> and install the current version of the driver.  Unfortunately Outlook blocks
> .vbs files on my PC, apologetically, hopefully; Richard might resend his
> script; maybe a different file extension will fool my Outlook configuration.

Reason 5937 of "why i use Thunderbird instead of Outlook"
Attached are Coordinates4.abcs (was .vbs)
and SimpleSlew.abjs (was .js), in case it's JavaScript-hostile, too.

> In the mean time, I'll order the #497... That is if there are no further
> Autostar upgrade complications to consider.

You will need to buy or build a Meade 505-like cable.
The 494's 506 will -not- work with the 497.

End-to-end pinout of  a 505 is here:
http://www.weasner.com/etx/autostar/as_cable505.html

It uses a narrow telephone-handset-sized plug, the same size
as the AUX socket.  (but does not go -into- the AUX socket).
I use telephone handset cables when i build one.

> Alternatively, Richard says Andrew's MyScope can track where an ETX is
> pointing with user-program-supplied timestamps... Apparently you can specify
> serial commands to output at a specific time/rate, and it will log the
> results.  I see on your website the following link: 
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/johansea/
> I'll download and play with this program tomorrow.
> 
> For future balloon theodolite units (total cost < $400.) I'm considering the
> ETX-60ATBB, upgraded to Autostar #497 and using a 40mm Wide Angle T Threaded
> Eyepiece with a directly attached ToUcam - [Philips PRO II PCVC840K Webcam].
> 
> http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au/telescopes095.htm
> 
> Telescopes-Astronomy.com produces the 1.25" (32mm) diameter eyepiece which
> has a focal length of 40mm and a T Thread on the end for directly connecting
> the ToUcam.  The clear aperture 26mm lens is flat and positioned close to
> the end of the eyepiece to keep it as close to the camera as possible,
> widening the field of view.  The magnification is 350mm/40mm = 8.75X or
> 17.5X (with the flip-Barlow lens); very much like a "real" theodolite.

I may be mistaken (astro photos are not my strong suit), but if you
use the camera with -no- lenses (either on the TouCam or as an
intervening eyepiece) you'll have a slightly -wider- field of view.
The ETX will become a 350mm "telephoto" on the camera, and the
effective magnification will be 350/50 (i think.. the "50" is
from 35mm film days).

> This configuration should allow pibal following on a laptop screen with a
> wider, more desirable Field Of View.  The internal flip-Barlow lens will
> provide magnification doubling when called for... hopefully someday,
> auto-tracking with PHD Guider will be possible. 
> http://www.stark-labs.com/phdguiding.html
> 
> Maybe I should send the DSI back to Amazon; it's supposed to arrive
> Thursday...

AH!  The DSI kit -includes- a 505 cable!  (a $20 (or less) value).
The DSI will not be able to run at the frame rate of the TouCam
(i do not know its fastest throughput... in part it depends upon
you having a USB 2.0 socket on your PC instead of a USB 1.1).

have fun
--dick

And more:

Here's another well-reviewed free telescope command/control program, RTGUI
http://www.debunker.com/astro/rtguipage.html
and the final line on the features list says:
"#  Command-Line Parameters allow  Scripting for automated operation"

Chasing down that link led to the information of where/how they
talk to the scope:
"1. RTGUI+S is a 32-bit program for Windows systems such as Win 95/98,
ME, XP, NT 4, Windows 2000, etc.. It is written using Microsoft Visual
Basic 6. The Application Program Interface used to access the COM port
is taken from "modCOMM" published on TheScarms by David M. Hitchner (see
http://www.thescarms.com/VBasic/CommIO.asp). "

and
"RTGUI+S is based upon an earlier MS-DOS program, "RTASTRO" (RT.EXE).
RTASTRO is still available for Windows 3.1 and DOS users at
http://www.debunker.com/astro/rt_702.zip. It has many of the
features of RTGUI+S, but without the easy-to-use interface. The accuracy
of its planetary and lunar positions is not nearly as good as RTGUI+S.
It is no longer being supported."

... that latter program (or the modCOM package) may perhaps be easily warped into
doing precisely what you want (we can hope).

Whoops!  Maybe not:
"3. RTGUI+S does not read status from any telescope during GOTO
operations. It only writes the current object's RA and DEC to the
control port, using the data format proper for that scope's protocol.
But this is good - there have been situations when this code, because of
its total simplicity, has worked and certain expensive,
heavily-advertised astronomy programs would not! "

But THEN they say: (note the 494 information!)
---
5. Known Problems: Changes made to code to read location from Meade
scope, attempting to address a problem reported with the new RCX400
scopes (apparently a small change in scopes' responses). Issue not yet
resolved.

Problems have been reported with the Goto on the Meade Autostar model
494, which has more limited real-time capabilities than the other
Autostar models. A 5 ms delay has been inserted between each character
to attempt to remedy this problem. In addition, there is a 50 ms delay
between the commands. However, the problem is not yet resolved.
---------

have fun
--dick

And:

In fact, even -Meade- provided an example program that would (mostly)
work with the 494... they did it in the Appendix of the Classic LX200 manual.

Visit www.meade.com/manuals  and download the LX200_Classic_Manual.pdf

Buzz down to page 58, and there starts the source listing of a Basic
program for talking to an LX200 serial-speaking scope.

Page 59 -has- a "report where we are" section of code.

The important lines are:
OPEN "COM2:9600,N,8,1,CD0,CS0,DS0,OP0,RS,TB2048,RB2048" FOR RANDOM AS #1

which tells the PC you are going to be doing mixed In/Out from the COM port
(in this example, COM2)

Then (page 59):
------------
telpos:
LOCATE 6, 7: PRINT "TELESCOPE POSITION";

c$ = "#:GA#": PRINT #1, c$; : d$ = INPUT$(7, 1): RAL$ = LEFT$(d$, 3):
RAM$ = MID$(d$, 5, 2): LOCATE 9, 10: PRINT "ALT: "; RAL$; CHR$(248); RAM$; "'";

c$ = "#:GZ#": PRINT #1, c$; : d$ = INPUT$(7, 1): RAL$ = LEFT$(d$, 3):
RAM$ = MID$(d$, 5, 2): LOCATE 10, 10: PRINT "AZ : "; RAL$; CHR$(248); RAM$; "'";

RETURN
-----------

The "PRINT #1, c$" sends the commands GA and GZ to the scope,
and " d$ = INPUT$(7, 1): RAL$ = LEFT$(d$, 3): RAM$ = MID$(d$, 5, 2):"
reads (INPUT) the COM port and extracts the desired characters from the result.
"LOCATE 9, 10: PRINT "ALT: "; RAL$; CHR$(248); RAM$; "'";"
puts them on your PC screen.
You could have it PRINT to a file.

Loop until the balloon is no longer visible...

(oh, the good old days when PCs came with BASIC on ROM chips
in the machine...).

GWBASIC can be downloaded from many sites (just google on
"GWBASIC  download") including:
http://www.geocities.com/KindlyRat/GWBASIC.html

have fun
--dick

Subject:	RE: ETX-70AT with DSI used as a Balloon Theodolite
Sent:	Monday, March 24, 2008 15:39:11
From:	Jim Rogina (jrogina@acmesport.com)
Mike, I'd like to thank you for your continued interest and assistance;
and thanks (in advance) to Dick Seymour for any advice he might provide.

With focus on how you might help us...
The most important issue for this project is finding a solution for
writing ETX scope position data to a file for analysis.  In our limited
experience, it appears that Autostar uses standard LX200 scope control
code.  If we have to do a little embedded systems programming, I won't
let this quell AWBC Student enthusiasm, but if we can avoid this more
advanced solution simply by purchasing some inexpensive off the shelf
amateur astronomer software solution, this would be a better solution
for our students; and a dual lesson as well; the fully functional
amateur astronomer equipment and software might inspire our students to
become amateur astronomers.  I can imagine amateur astronomy telescope
control software that allows the user to track an unknown object like
say an asteroid and then use that empirical data to display the object's
track against the celestial sphere; if in the year 2008, no such
inexpensive astronomy program with ETX/LX200 telescope control now
exists, I'd imagine it's only a matter of time.  Meade's Autostar Suite,
Starry Night Pro, The Earth Centered Universe Pro, etc.; our research
indicates that possibly many others, like for example Daniel Wolf of
Videobotics, have made some use of the LX200 control code in their
software product offerings.  We are hoping that we won't have to
purchase and individually test thousands of dollars worth of software to
find telescope control software functionality that will allow us to
write ETX scope position data to a file.
Thanks (in advance) for any assistance you might provide.

Following is a more complete discussion of the AWBC project issues; if
you want to take the time... you may find this additional information
interesting... or not... in any case, thanks again for your time and
interest...Jim Rogina

I'd like to take a moment to emphasize that this project has a very good
cause, www.awbc.info  ...
We are working with K9-K14 students here in Alaska, trying to use the
inspiration of 'Sport Ballooning' to create a context and/or motivation
for learning science in the classroom... to inspire students to excel in
the sciences, to motivate students to learn how to make use of
computers, mathematics, physics and the Internet to negotiate a
successful process that might even lead to... of all things; innovation.
I have been recently amazed, for example by the scientific community's
admonishment of Garrett Lisi, ostensibly because the guy has a "new"
Esub8 theory; as if the top scientists of the last several centuries
have never been wrong about anything, much less everything.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/11/14/scisurf114
.xml

When the human ego oppresses the spirit of learning, I speak out against
it and try to get the student's focus back on being inquisitive.  There
is nothing wrong with a student having a theory and trying to solve a
problem; even if the so called "experts" disagree.

Clearly, I'm no ETX expert, so, in all humility... with regard to the
LNT; this is what I was thinking...
When Autostar goes to an alignment star during its 'one star' alignment
routine, I'm guessing it slews to a position where a particular star
should be if the scope were properly aligned; then after the user
manually centers this alignment star in the FOV, the user somehow
indicates to Autostar that the alignment star is indeed now in the
center of the FOV.  Autostar can then make the relative corrections to
'Level and North' based on this enhanced information.  Enhanced
alignment would occur if a landmark like a mountain peak were used.  I
don't spend much time considering these details, because in my opinion
they aren't deal-breakers... if we use the LNT and accept the FOV
automatically chosen by Autostar (regardless of scope position) the
winds aloft data will have relative errors, errors that can always be
corrected in future soundings through a more through scope alignment
procedure.  It's important of respect the application.  By comparison; I
have, for more than 35 years, executed thousands of safe successful
balloon flight plans, based upon 20 minutes of observed winds aloft data
acquired from a simple compass and a wrenched neck.  Relative position
errors will create relative errors in the sounding data.  The students
can determine the magnitude and/or effect of these relative errors on a
safe hot-air balloon flight plan; and alter their scope alignment
procedures accordingly.

Most of the theodolite "experts" we have consulted on this subject spend
all of their time with us conjuring up and focusing on details to
suggest that our concept 'won't work' and discouraging the students from
further investigation.  In spite of this, we have easily demonstrated
'proof of concept' by acquiring inexpensive readily available 18" latex
pibals and tracking them for more than the desirable 30 minutes [$150
ETX-70AT and a 25mm eyepiece]; in fact... if in the final assessment
this is the best we can do to automate the pibal tracking process, this
manual tracking method is acceptable (certainly as easy as the procedure
for aligning and using a $15,000 theodolite). Proof of Concept...  Never
the less, the discouragement from some of the theodolite "experts" has
been overwhelming.  Acquisition of the pibal in the ETX FOV, for
example, became such a big deal with 'the experts'; any student with a
normal sensibility of ego would have given up under the pressure long
ago.  Luckily, I'd already made the crushing investment in the ETX, may
years ago.  We made it clear in our discussions with the 'experts',
acquisition of the pibal is not important during the first five to ten
minutes of the sounding, because during this time, the pibal can easily
be tracked very simply, visually, with a compass; allowing plenty of
time to get the pibal in the ETX FOV.  We explained; Ballooning only
happens when the winds aloft are relatively calm; the angular
displacement of the pibal during the 30 minutes of tracking might only
be in total 15 to 30 degrees.  Still, the students are only advised as
to why this won't work, not encouraged to investigate further.  One of
the biggest issues the theodolite 'experts' throw at the students as
reasons to abandon our project???  They site the difficulties in
alignment of the ETX scope...

Why all the discouragement?  What are the real deal breakers?
* $8,000 to $15,000 for 'expert' theolodite instrument(s)
* $6 per pibal + helium costs
If we had to endure these costs; there could be no soundings made by any
of our students, ever.  AWBC needs many concurrent sites for
observation. Instead we are suggesting that adequate data can be
affordably obtained from a $150 ETX scope and $.02 latex helium pibal
balloons...... @ less than 2% of those 'expert imposed' deal-breaker
costs listed above.  Yes, using readily available cheap latex pibals
might introduce errors in the sounding data, however the possibility of
these errors doesn't justify scrapping the idea altogether, rather we
teach the students to account for those errors and make a determination
as to the value of the data that can be gathered from those 'cheap
pibals'.

And:

From:	Richard Seymour (rseymour@wolfenet.com)
Whoops... my apologies... the request was a complicated one,
so i couldn't just dash off an answer... and it did arrive in
the midst of other things going on.

It's difficult to determine exactly -what- Jim is requesting.
I -believe- he's trying for "object moves in camera field, scope follows"
(if not, could you please restate the -technical- "what i want" -without- the
surrounding  history, mission statement and justification).

If "moves...follows" is the goal, then that's really what's behind "autoguiding",
a common astrophotographic process.

There are many (some free) programs which will provide that function.
He is correct in that the ETX-70AT will respond to many LX200 serial commands.
If he upgrades his 494 Autostar to a 497 Autostar, there are even more
commands available, and they're processed faster (the 494 with the 506
cable/converter is limited to fewer than 100 characters per second.
The last time i check it (5 years ago) it was about 67 cps).
The 497 (with a built-in rs232 interface) can handle over 900 cps.

An example free guiding program is PHD Guider
http://www.stark-labs.com/phdguiding.html

It uses the ASCOM driver platform to be able to talk to dozens of brands
of automated telescopes.  It can use the Meade DSI camera as its sensor.

Another example is CCDguide (or something like that... i'm not at home with
my notes at the moment), which is also free and can accept the (cheaper)
Meade LPI camera.  ((when i get home, i'll send the correct name))

Since his targets are going to be moving far faster than images drift
in the typical astronomical application, he may have to tweak the code
to issue commands at a higher slew rate than most guiding programs request.

One problem with Meade's cameras is that their CMOS sensor only subtends
an angle equivalent to a 6mm eyepiece... so the field of view is -tiny-,
and it may be difficult to keep the object in view.  (put in a 6mm and
try to do it by hand...).   Additional optics (such as a focal reducer)
may be needed.

To simultaneously extract "where is it pointing?" you'll need a method
of "multiplexing" the two programs' (guider and recorder) data streams
to the Autostar via a single COM port... ASCOM's POTH (Plain Old Telescope
Hub) does that.  The two programs view POTH as their "telescope", and
POTH is the real owner of the COM port that talks to the physical telescope.

Likewise, Meade's AutostarSuite has a method (called Network Server) to
allow two of its components to share telescope access... so their guiding
program (LPI.exe or Envisage) can control the scope, and the scope's path
can be traced on their SkyMap application.
For numeric analysis, you could capture a simultaneous log of the serial port's
data stream (using PortMon, for example) and later extract the desired data.

How well Envisage and the LPI.exe program will interact with a 494 Autostar
will depend upon many factors (firmware version in the 494, whether Meade
allows you to autoguide it, etc.).   You may have to lie to AutostarSuite
and claim it's a Classic LX200.

Daytime alignment of the scope is simple.  You could ignore the LNT and simply
establish a know due north (or known offset from due north) landmark.
Point the scope *there* (with barrel level) and power up.  
*Skip* the alignment, (after  date and time, just tap [mode] to esaape it).
Press [mode] 3 seconds, release, scroll to the Alt/Az readout.
It should be reading Az=00, Alt=00  and you can take it from there.

Feel free to ask for more details.

have fun
--dick

And more:

Jim Rogina wrote:
> Thanks Richard,
> 
> You've suggested many options, I'll explain our simple request more
> specifically; and address our other issues with order of priority.
> 
> 1) We're hoping to be able to control the scope manually, with selectable
> slew rates, all the while writing the 'scope position' data to a file.

If, by "manually", you mean by tippy-tapping on the Autostar's keypad,
it can handle this.  From the PC you'd send
:GA#
to get its altitude, and
:GZ#
to get its azimuth.

If you do -not- attempt an alignment, these will be relative to
where the telescope was powered up.

If you limit your interrogation rate to once or twice per second,
the 494 should be able to keep up.  Sometimes the results may lag
the actual position by a bit... this will be murder for your application
(that's what smoothing algorithms are for, right?) but it's a quirk
of how Meade wrote their firmware.

> Regarding FOV; if I have to look through the 25mm eyepiece while controlling
> the scope manually, this is an acceptable option.  Being able to more
> conveniently use the video output from a focally reduced video/web camera,
> would be nice, but the simple goal is #1 above.
> 
> If we need to purchase the latest ETX Premier Edition with the 497 Autostar
> and built in RS-232, this is an acceptable option; this scope is available
> now for less than $600.  Five years from now there will be thousands of them
> available on ebay, and by then one will cost only $300.

You only (may) need to purchase the 497 itself... it will happily
operate any ETX telescope (except the original ETX90-RA, which does not
have a motor on the DEC/Alt axis).   List price for the 497 is now $200,
but they're frequently available for $100 or slightly less (with digging).

If you have not yet purchased the 506 cable/converter for your 494,
the cost of that could be put towards buying the 497.

Another advantage of the 497 is that the firmware -can- be patched to
change its behaviour.  I've generated many custom patches over the years
to help projects like this.  It's part of the fun of the system.

> ***) Again, in other words; I'm hoping to procure a telescope control
> program that will control an inexpensive amateur consumer EXT-type scope
> manually, with selectable slew rates, all the while allowing us to write
> 'scope position' to a data file.

Now here we're ambiguous again... if you mean "manually" to be using
the PC as the -controller- (click on screen, keyboard or wiggle a mouse/
joystick) then you're adding some levels... there are programs which
will do much of this (Andrew Johansen's MyScope has a lot of this...
but it's aimed at the additional serial commands available in the 497).
But it's certainly feasible to toss together a (for example) Visual Basic
program to provide the functionality you desire.  You'll only be limited
by the command repertoire of the 494 (i'm not sure at the moment what
speed control you have available).

>  If the Autostar 494 is a problem, we'll get the 497. 

It may depend upon your 494's firmware.  You can see the version
number by menuing to Setup/Statistics [enter][scroll up]
If it's 12Ea, i can find out what serial commands it knows.
If it's a newer version, i don't have copies of that ROM to analyze (yet).

> If FOV is a problem we'll use the 25mm eyepiece.  If telescope
> alignment is a problem, I'll deal with it on my own, thanks; I'm hoping that
> we make use of your valuable and much appreciated time trying to solve the
> problems that are the real deal-breakers.  The difference between a 494 and
> a 497 is $150.  A Meade LNT is $150, a webcam is $150, a focal reducer is
> $150... A theodolite it $8,000 to $20,000.  We don't care about $300 or
> $500, especially if it means that we are going to continue to miss the boat.

The ETX70 is quite possibly a better starting point (in some ways) than
the ETX90 or ETX125... because it's a shorter focal length/wider field scope.

> Auto-guiding the telescope after acquiring the pibal would be a great
> feature and I'll be working toward the possibility of this feature as a goal
> in the future; but we don't want the complications of auto-guiding or any
> other less relevant details to overwhelm the feasibility of the project.  In
> all humility, I don't know why our inquiries continuously get bogged down
> with seemingly endless almost irrelevant details.  I apologize; I'm
> apparently not able to state the problem effectively.  In the simplest terms
> we're hoping to be able to control an ETX-style scope manually, with
> selectable slew rates, all the while writing the 'scope position' data to a
> file.  If we can't do this one simple thing, every other discussion on this
> subject is totally useless.

Tracking where it's pointing, with user-program-supplied timestamps,
is relatively simple.  Andrew's MyScope can do that... you can tell
it serial commands to output at what rate, and it will log the results.
Writing a similar application in (insert your favorite language) isn't
too hard, depending upon (your favorite language)'s facility with
bidirectional communication via a serial port.  If memory serves,
in Visual Basic it's just opening COM1: as a file for read/write,
for binary access or record lengths of "1".  The Autostar's terminating
character is the "#", it does not emit "carriage returns" as terminators.
(so a simple "readline" doesn't work).

Adding "manual" control via the PC becomes an exercise in interface design
(for talking to the human), and sorting out which commands the 494 accepts.
The "talking to human" portion can indeed be a long drag into "irrelevant"
areas...

have fun
--dick

Whoops... forgot to include a few references:

Andrew's MyScope is available from
http://members.optusnet.com.au/johansea
also check out his "MyVideo", which includes Autostar control
-and- video processing.

He wrote those in Delphi, and is quite happy to attack interesting
problems.

The Official Meade LX200 command document is here:
http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

There are dozens of newer commands -not- documented in that,
but the 494 probably doesn't have them, either.

have fun
--dick

And:

Thank you, Mike and Richard

Clearly, there are many ways to skin this cat.  I appreciate... the time
you've given my inquiries on the subject; and your patience with my
frustrations.  My requests may seem ambiguous, I'm sure from your
perspective they are.  For example, I'm not sure if it's best to control the
scope from the Autostar hand controller, or the keyboard of some other
device; one of many issues, one of many choices, each with their own set of
decision parameters and complications.  Clearly, I don't know the best
configuration solution for the equipment, and so I'm not able to specify
what 'exactly' I'm trying to do succinctly...  To this end, I've tried to
provide enough background to emphasize the important issues in
designing/innovating a ballooning theodolite; while rejecting discussion on
those issues that are not important.  

I think that I've read in your responses in several places that there is
indeed software available that will log scope position and write to a file.
Thank you.  I'll be looking over your suggestions over the next few days
and, if you like, I'll keep you posted as to my progress.  Of course, if you
should think of something in the shower, I'd love to hear about your refined
innovative ballooning theodolite ideas.  Making use of my old ETX-70AT scope
equipment is not as important to us as being able to repeat what ever
solution we finally choose... we (AWBC students) intend to acquire/make
several of these balloon theodolites in the coming months.

Thanks Again,

Jim Rogina

Subject:	Vista connection ETX60/70/80
Sent:	Saturday, March 22, 2008 04:48:21
From:	Henrik van Holthoon (henrik.van.holthoon@wanadoo.fr)
As Mike said you need #506 serial cable one side goes into the AUX port
on de control panel of the ETX60/70/80 other side to serial port PC or
serial/USB adapter. I use Autostar suite software in combination with
ETX70AT together with Vista no problem it works without any problems.
For the rest follow Mike's advice.
Regards Henrik

Subject:	RE: ETX-70AT with DSI used as a Balloon Theodolite
Sent:	Friday, March 21, 2008 12:15:03
From:	Jim Rogina (jrogina@acmesport.com)
I've read up on focal reducers, thanks. I'll know more about the
magnitude of my FOV issues after I test drive the DSI.

I read with interest your suggestion regarding the Autostar #497.  On
the Meade site they list the 'additional capabilities' of the #497... 
For example... "Digital readouts of telescope position, continuously in
RA and Dec."  This sounds like what I'm looking for; but there are no
details; I can be sure what they mean.

Daniel says that he stopped development of his CamMotion software CIRCA
2001.  The advantage of working with his software is the less expensive
equipment; maybe an old ETX, an inexpensive Webcam and his software
might be sufficient.

On the other hand, technology marches on.  I'm thinking that maybe I
should consider purchasing one of the newer Premier Edition ETX scopes. 
The LNT features will be very useful in my application.  The PE scopes
come with #497.  Do you know of a way to get the advertised 'Digital
readouts of telescope position, continuously in RA and Dec'? I need to
create a track log... scope position history (file).

Thanks for your advice

Jim

And:

For my purposes, (daylight terrestrial tracking of a pibal) exact scope
alignment is not important; yet the scope must be approximately aligned
or the scope position data file might be (relatively) compromised beyond
being useful.  The LNT simply automates the approximate leveling and
North-ing tasks; I'd simply accept its alignment star position and move
on with my pibal tracking efforts.  With the old ETX-70AT, I'd level and
align the scope manually and accept the one star alignment routine.

I've read much of the Autostar programming info on your site; clearly,
you have lots of experience with this subject.  My first approach is to
see if there isn't something built-in to commercially available software
that will serve my needs; and this is where I'm hoping your experience
might be helpful.

The DSI I purchased comes with Meade's Autostar Suite.  I see a dialogue
box for the "Obsevatory Dome Controller" on which I see a field for a
Log File; ostensibly presented in the context of 'keeping observing
logs'.  Upon further investigation reading the AutostarSuiteManual.pdf I
read: "In addition to controlling the observatory structure, the
controller also keeps a running log of telescope pointing, air mass and
auxiliary instrumentation in the Log File. The name and location of this
file can be set from the main window. For complete information
configuration and operation of the Observatory Control Module, see the
documentation for the Observatory Controller Box."

It's difficult to determine what might or might not be a real feature
from reading Meade's advertising. Of course, I can't find any
documentation for the "Observatory Controller Box".  If I use Autostar
Suite to control the scope, will I be able to keep a log file of scope
position history?

Subject:	ETX-70AT with DSI used as a Balloon Theodolite
Sent:	Friday, March 21, 2008 01:15:48
From:	Jim Rogina (jrogina@acmesport.com)
I design, build and fly hot-air balloons in Alaska.  A standard pibal
theodolite http://www.pilotballoon.com/balloon.htm can be a very
expensive [$8,000+] and tedious instrument to use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodolite ; an ETX with a Web camera can
be had for $300.  Many years ago I purchased an ETX-70AT, hoping to be
able to track pilot helium balloons for mountain flight plan winds aloft
verification.   www.awbc.info  My concept is to use the ETX drive
controls, a video camera, and a laptop to track a helium balloon.  I
purchased a Meade DSI this evening [~$160]; I'm sure I'll learn
something for my money and trouble.  In my feasibility test, I was at
14X magnification ~[350mm/25mm], now with the DSI I'll be at 350x;
twenty five times that magnification...

I've been in contact with Daniel Wolf at www.videobotics.com  he has
created a rudimentary program [CamMotion ETX] that uses an ETX as a
Webcam directional control platform.  From what I've been able to read,
it looks like Meade's software will control the scope OK, in fact it
might even auto-track the pibal if I can get it into the field of view
with some reasonable focus; but my problems will continue be the reduced
FOV, and writing the drive control's data output to a file.

Maybe Daniel Wolf could/will help with the data-file issue; I don't
think Meade will be very helpful.  Do you have any suggestion regarding
the Field of View problem I'm going to have?  Can I somehow install a
lens before camera to reduce the magnification?
 
Thank you in advance for any assistance you might provide.
 
Jim Rogina

Subject:	ETX 60 AT want focuse
Sent:	Thursday, March 20, 2008 06:13:39
From:	Charles Powell (powel_charles@yahoo.com)
My new ETX 60 AT does not look like it is focuseing when the nob is
turned. Do you know how to check it? Charles

Subject:	azimuth drive failure.  No spring?
Sent:	Tuesday, March 18, 2008 17:14:46
From:	Jack Porter (jeporter@san.rr.com)
The azimuth drive on my ETX-60 ceased working.  The azimuth drive motors
work as expected, and with plenty of torque.  The azimuth drive lock
lever felt loose in all positions so took the scope base apart.  Don't
know how it happened, but it seems the drive lock screw needed
resetting, which I did by taking the lever off of the hex bolt,
tightening it to just the right tension.  Now the azimuth lock works
fine.  On re-assembly the azimuth drive motor works fine, but doesn't
move the scope in azimuth.  I realize now that the azimuth drive worm
gear is not engaging the large (nylon) gear in the base - the one which
is friction engaged to the base by the azimuth locking lever.  This time
I discovered that the whole azimuth drive worm gear assembly is swung on
an axis and needs something to push the worm plus worm assembly against
the large nylon gear.  My guess would be that it is a spring, but there
is no such animal in my scope now, and I have never had it apart before!

Please answer following, if possible:

What is the part or information I am missing. That is, what is supposed
to press the worm against the big nylon gear?

If I am missing a part, as I suspect, how can I get a replacement? Or,
if that's a hassel,

Can you describe the part so I might fabricate it?

Thanks,

Jack Porter.

Subject:	Ext-60at USB connection
Sent:	Thursday, March 13, 2008 19:19:42
From:	Timothy Wood (mothywood@tmail.com)
I have the ext-60at and have the autostar software that came with it. I
don't know what cables I need to connect it to my laptop. I have looked
online but haven't seen what cables I need. Any help?
-Timothy Wood

And:

Ok, I looked it up and I see that for the meade cable the driver
software is not compatible with windows Vista, which the the OS I am
working with. Any solution?

Also I am wondering if after I connect the 60at with my computer (with
autostar software running) will it automatically connect and I will be
able to control the telescope? Or will I have to run an update on the
scope/computer?
-Timothy Wood

And:

Two more questions! Does the cable plug into the hbx port on the base of
the scope itself? Or does it go into the aux port? If so, will the
autostar on the scope try to compete with the autostar on the computer?

Second, what is the difference/advantages of using the supplied autostar
software vs. Buying the astrofinder software? They sound like the same
thing to me
-Timothy Wood

Subject:	My Meade ETX-80AT
Sent:	Monday, March 10, 2008 14:03:11
From:	Dave Pople (dpople@expedia.com)
I have just bought a Meade ETX-80AT with Autostar
I have read the booklet and tried to get the Autostar to find me some
interesting items. However when I click align the Telescope goes through
some configuration and seems to find the constellation it was looking
for.

The telescope then says it's slewing and starts to make a noise like my
mother in law is stuck in the boot of my car and does not move around
any more.

When I first set the scope up I set the direction to north and set the
angle at 0 degrees.

Am I doing everything right?

I have made sure the locks are secure but not too tight

Any advice or help would be good-thanks
 
Dave

And:

Thanks Mike

Subject:	mySKY and my ETX-80) (AT?)
Sent:	Sunday, March 9, 2008 12:25:05
From:	Eric Vidacovich (vidaeris@yahoo.com)
I have an ETX-80, I believe that it is an AT, with the original
controller. Apparently, I am somewhat of qn optimist, because I keep
working with the scope with small results.

I recently purchased a mySKY hoping that somehow this would assist me in
a number of issues. After reading the instructions, I'm still not sure
how to hook it up to my telescope or if I am putting it in the proper
position for setting the GPS. When it says to set it on a stable surface
with the top pointing at the sky, does the top referring to the front
part or the top with the 3 lights. This seems that it should be a simple
question and probably is. The main issue is, can I use it to move my
telescope where I point the mySKY?

Eric

And:

Thanks,
I have the cables already.
Eric

Subject:	Autostar 497/494 question
Sent:	Friday, March 7, 2008 09:08:30
From:	Jack Fox (Jack.Fox@vdacs.virginia.gov)
Can the 497 Autostar be used to control the ETX -70?  If so, do you have
to recalibrate and retrain the motors each time if you switch between
controlling a ETX 125 and the 70 using the same Autostar?

Do you need to tell the 497 under Telescope model menu that it is a 70?

Jack Fox

Subject:	ETX 70 with 495 handset upgrade
Sent:	Friday, March 7, 2008 08:12:02
From:	David Hofland (hofland@jsu.edu)
I have a friend who has an ETX 70, an older model from a few years ago
that the instruction book he has only includes operation instructions
for the handset that came with it, which was at that time one without
autostar, just an alt/az motor controller with up-down and left-right
control.  But in his box, I guess his wife got it used form somewhere,
he doesn't have that original controller, instead he has a 495 handset. 
Now I have a new ETX 80 (2007 model) with a 494 handset, so he asked me
to help him set his up as I am familiar with that basic operation. 
Problem is that on his 495 controller handset there is no "speed" button
to change the slew speeds.  So during alignment, when the scope needs to
be slewed to center the alignment stars, the slew arrows work but the
speed is set on the slowest possible speed and it is barely moving, too
slow to reasonably operate it.  Anyway, he has no instruction book, and
I tried pulling up every mode and menu and could not find how to change
the slew speed. I checked the Meade website manual download page and
found nothing for the 495 handset.  My handset 494 has a "speed" key,
but his 495 handset does not. Any ideas?
 
David Hofland

And:

Thanks, I will let him know

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